Mak: 0:08

so we're four episodes in, and you're not sick of doing this with me yet?

Valerie: 0:14

not yet not yet.

Mak: 0:17

We'll see. That's good.

Valerie: 0:18

We'll see, like at episode 30, how you feel well, I'm just waiting for us to have our first fight on the podcast.

Mak: 0:26

Well, we're good at fighting off the podcast that we've mastered.

Valerie: 0:30

I'm sure we'll hit a topic and we'll go at it. We'll see.

Mak: 0:35

I guess it would be more interesting if we actually disagreed on something rather than just agreeing on everything all the time.

Valerie: 0:41

That's true, and we do disagree on things.

Mak: 0:45

Maybe we should make a list of things that we do disagree on and actually do a couple shows like that.

Valerie: 0:51

Although our different perspectives do tend to be maybe not disagreeing, but because I can see things from your perspective, how you're coming at it. It's just not necessarily my chosen perspective. I choose to look at things differently. It's just not necessarily my chosen perspective. Like, I choose to look at things differently. So I don't know if that's a disagreement, but I think that's why we are having so much fun, because these are the conversations that we have where we'll just interject and it's like oh well, I look at it this way and you look at it a different way. It's kind of fun.

Mak: 1:22

Well, it's nice of you to say that you see things from my perspective, so you understand, because you're just wrong.

Valerie: 1:30

Oh, yeah, okay.

Mak: 1:32

I'm just kidding.

Valerie: 1:33

You're instigating. Now You're trying to get us to fight on the air.

Mak: 1:36

Well, you got me like okay, I want to stir things up. I do like you know that is something about me. I do like you know that is something about me.

Valerie: 1:48

I do really like getting into like arguments with people, but hear me out, do you like?

Mak: 1:51

debating yeah, debating is a better word, but like a respectful disagreement. I love that and I love it because I really enjoy debating. But also I find I learn so much more and so often I have my mind changed. And I love that more than anything is when someone can come at me with a topic I'm passionate about and actually get me to change my mind. Then that's totally amazing. Like I love that experience and I seek that out all the time.

Valerie: 2:21

Yeah.

Mak: 2:22

Thank you for that. Thank you for that response.

Valerie: 2:24

Well, yeah, I'm sure that is going to happen at some I know we'll.

Mak: 2:29

We'll do it. Hey, I'm mac, this is val and this is our podcast, the unbound creative. Thank you for hanging out with us. Episode four, and uh, what's our topic for today?

Valerie: 2:42

I. I think there's something that holds a lot of creatives back. Well, there's a lot of things, let's face it.

Mak: 2:49

I feel like everything holds a lot of things that hold creatives back.

Valerie: 2:53

But there is this sneaky thing that we hear come up in different ways, and we're not necessarily saying the thing what it is, we're kind of hiding it in different ways. So what that thing is is waiting for permission, thinking that you need permission from who? From your parents, from society, from whatever else, somebody who is that you believe to be credible, or but just this desire to have permission in order to do well, anything that you want, but especially something creative.

Mak: 3:37

Well, I think the big one is waiting for permission from yourself.

Valerie: 3:41

Oh, totally.

Mak: 3:42

Because we and we hide this in very clever ways we come up with a hundred things that we need to do in order to start creating. Yes, so we always like I just this happens to me all the time. It's like oh well, I can do that once my office is clean. I can do that once I've created a web page for it. I can do that once I've gotten the colors nailed down. I can do that once I've created a webpage for it. I can do that once I've gotten the colors nailed down. I can do that. And it's like you start to notice oh no, I'm just not doing the thing because I'm not giving myself permission to start.

Valerie: 4:17

I hear artists say all the time I just need a little bit more experience. I'm not there yet. I need more experience, I need more training. We do, we push all of it down. It really is just fear. I mean, that's what all of it is the waiting for permission. Why are we waiting for permission? It really all boils down to the same thing which everybody is afraid. Therefore, we want the permission to somehow validate us and it's like then I'm going to feel legit, then I'm going to feel worthwhile, then I'm going to feel like I can do this Because if we think about it, because if we think about it, creatives in society as well are just not treated all that great in a lot of ways in a lot of circles.

Valerie: 5:18

Because it's almost this weird lose kind of a lose-lose, where I think, societally we hear messages a lot of like oh, that's cute, your cute little hobby, or it's kind of frivolous and fluffy. When you try to exercise your creativity, it feels like, oh, after all of the important things are done or in line, then whatever, spare little slivers of time that you have left, that's okay to put forth to your creativity. But then we also, at the same time, have all of this massive pressure at the same time. So if you start to do something creative, I think people's inclination it's like oh well, are you going to monetize that? Are you going to start a business? So I don't know, what do you think? I just feel like we get these weird societal messages for creatives.

Mak: 6:16

Yeah, I don't think people really know how to classify creativity. I have a lot to say about this because I'm going to have to gather my thoughts because my brain's kind of pinballing right now. But first of all, people don't take creativity seriously until you're suddenly famous. So it's like if you're a musician, it's like, oh, he's doing gigs on the weekends and isn't it nice and whatever. He's doing gigs on the weekends and isn't it nice and whatever. But then you get that album or that single and you become huge and all of a sudden, now it's legit.

Valerie: 6:52

Which is so ridiculous. That's so sad, right.

Mak: 6:56

And it's really stupid because it's all that build up, it's the doing that allows you to get to the legitimate part. Plus, there are plenty of musicians who aren't super famous but, let's say, financially successful. But until that moment, what you're doing is not legit. But you have to do the thing in order to become legit. It's like if, if, if someone was becoming an attorney and they're, and they're going through the law school practice, you know, getting ready. No one goes. Oh well, what you're doing isn't legitimate because you're not an attorney who's in trials yet. But for creatives, that's what it is I do feel like that is a societal.

Mak: 7:54

It is, it's like oh, you're trying, oh you're being creative, forget that, that's not. You're not contributing anything.

Valerie: 7:58

It's like oh, that's cute, that's cute. Or.

Mak: 8:00

Or this is like a oh, that's must be a nice hobby for you.

Valerie: 8:04

It's like no, but also, but also, oh, I can get so fired up. That's what I mean.

Mak: 8:11

I have like 500 thoughts, and I wish I could hit pause. We don't do that here.

Valerie: 8:15

Okay, this is all real, this is raw, this is we don't edit. I get so mad because we people almost want to put creativity in a box. This is like why we're literally doing the podcast called the right.

Valerie: 8:37

This is the unbound creative, not the bound creative the crux of it all which is why I think we're getting fired up, but also like I want to say it right, at the same time, found creative the crux of it all, which is why I think we're getting fired up, but also, like I want to say it right at the same time. So the thing is dancing with creativity and entering that realm of being creative and starting to create something from nothing and think in that way, I believe, is the doorway to a purposeful, fulfilling, meaningful, happy existence that is not determined, based on business, monetization, outward success, like we hold those things in such high regard. I feel like when it comes to creatives, and then we put all this pressure on creatives once they have achieved that level right, like we see that with celebrities and things or musicians, for example, and then it's like oh, they got famous for a certain thing. And then how often do we hear people say like, oh, that album and they went off the rails and all this?

Mak: 9:55

stuff. Then we judge the creativity. There's so much here.

Valerie: 9:59

There's so much to unpack, but I feel like that very existence of dancing with creativity let's take away what it could potentially become, or putting any type of label on it at all Just the very act of creating will change your life. You start dancing in that way, operating in that way, thinking about life through the lens of creativity, through whatever channel necessary for you to get there. For some people, that is traditional creative arts painting, drawing, whatever it is, drawing, whatever it is. Um, music, that can be something that turns into a thing, a real thing. We see that all the time.

Valerie: 10:54

That happens with creatives. However, that could also be something that just gives you an amazing, incredible life and then opens you up to other ways of being creative, in ways that aren't just relegated to the traditional arts. The arts may be a gateway into learning these principles of creativity and getting messy and being willing to be vulnerable and take risks and everything, and then you take that way of being and put it into everything else that you do. But this isn't even getting into the fact that just being part of the arts will change your literal brain, like we're wired for it On a biological level.

Mak: 11:47

Yeah, science at this point.

Valerie: 11:48

To interact with the arts, like music heals us. Colors heal us. Interacting with nature In a way where we express that Heals us.

Mak: 12:01

Moving through your feelings by making art Is a medicinal drip in your brain that can heal you and this is like and I'm going to put this out there, this is not like conjecture or woo woo. We actually know people who have developed things that are in the process of being approved by the f FDA to like treat cancer with music and with visuals and with and there was a the book your, your brain on art which dives into all of this so do you know what that book was to me?

Valerie: 12:36

We're talking about permission. That book, to me, was like one huge, giant permission slip. I was just like you want to make fun of people trying to create. You want to say this is frivolous and cute and a hobby. I just want to hold up that book and like slam it down on the table and be like this is the permission.

Mak: 12:57

Well, I'm going to take this a step further and I'm going to say I still firmly believe that everybody is creative. Every human being is creative in one way or another. We were created to create. That's why we're here. So there's a part of me that really firmly believes that we're so hard on creatives because we're actually envious of the people who are creating.

Mak: 13:18

We look at them creating and we go. You can't do that because that's frivolous and that's dumb and that scares me over here in my corporate job, where I'm not creating but secretly deep down, I want to create something, and I think it's been more and more prevalent in the last 10 or 15 years, especially with the advent of the internet. But with technology and where it is how we can, well, you can start a business literally in two hours, in an afternoon at home, where doing that even 20 years ago was so much more difficult than it is now. Like you can have an idea in the morning and be selling it online at night. That is crazy. That has never like.

Mak: 14:06

We're so fortunate to be alive in a time where that is totally possible. And because of that, I think we're seeing more and more people stepping into being creative. Because we have that ability, the whole world is like at the end of our phone or the end of our laptop, but so I think people are leaning into that more. But also, at the same time, you have more and more people who are judging that, because they want to step out and be creative, but they're not. So we're in like a kind of a catch-22 here, when we're talking about the topic we're talking today, which is permission to start, and I actually think what causes people to get on creatives is the fact that they're jealous of creatives. Does that make sense? And it's because they want to start.

Valerie: 15:03

Well, I'm thinking about Brene Brown and her book Daring Greatly. It's the same thing. She's all about shame, of course, and vulnerability as an antidote, and empathy as an antidote to shame, but we feel joy because of the vulnerability. We have to have the vulnerability place peace. And in Daring Greatly there's the quote about you're only listening to the people who are in the rink with you. Basically, I forget, I'm saying it wrong, but do you know what quote I'm talking about?

Valerie: 15:40

I vaguely remember I mean it's been a minute, the whole book is on that concept of the bystanders are the ones who are saying these things, not the people in the rink. It's like listening to the people in the rink who are doing this. But yeah, there is just these contradictory kind of cultural messages we get with creativity and I think that it's especially the plight of a creative is especially difficult in that because we do hear the cultural messaging of this is frivolous, this is silly, get you know, do your adulting. Things like this is the more important things. And come on, hello, we can go struggling, starving, suffering, artist all day long. Talk about that.

Valerie: 16:31

So you have that on one end, but then on the other end, for the creative who is in the rank, the one doing it, it feels anything but frivolous, it can feel so heavy. So we ourselves are like, so fearful perfectionist, feeling all of that weight and what we've talked about in our previous episodes too, just about how we're not so wired for thriving, we're wired for survival. We have a survival brain that does a good job of keeping us in line and trying to keep us safe. So when you are overriding that with the biohacks we talked about last time, that feels, that can feel really heavy and really like there's a lot at stake and there's a lot on the line. So it's such an interesting thing that we have that contradiction, because then we may be hearing the messaging of you're silly and it's frivolous and oh, what a cute little hobby, but you're feeling a lot of angst and pressure about that.

Valerie: 17:45

So, yeah, we want to in just this podcast in general, we want to empower creatives. I think, if there's anything that, if it boils down to what do we want for creatives, what do we want for people who listen to this podcast? We want to be the voice that says we see you. We want to be the voice that says we see you. It's hard to have these different messaging that comes in, but yet we want to be this light. Back to yourself. It's like come back to who you are, come back to yourself. You are made to create. You are made to do this. The people that are saying this and maybe keeping you from stepping out in your full permission and in your full empowerment, they are blocked themselves.

Mak: 18:44

Well, that's why it's a catch 22. And so that's the point is that you are allowed to create. There is no level of creativity which is frivolous or off limits or off limits in any way, shape or form.

Mak: 19:00

So that's today's topic getting started. The secret there is literally just starting and paying attention to your thoughts and the things that you're doing in order to sort of procrastinate or keep yourself from starting, like, what is the reason you haven't done the thing? Now think about that reason and really analyze it and go is this real or is this not real? What is the point? What is the reason that you have not yet started? Because we need you to start. We want you to start. You've got to go right now.

Valerie: 19:40

It's like the why under the why, and if it has something to do with well, I'm not legitimate or I don't feel as though I can warrant the time and the money. That's another big thing where I've talked before about my explorations, my own creative explorations that have had many dead ends, like I was into earrings for a while, which is probably the one I've talked about the most, because I invested a great deal of time and money into doing that.

Mak: 20:15

Sure.

Valerie: 20:15

And it ended up being nothing. Do I find that to be a waste? No, I needed that. That was part of a creative exploration. That was part of following a whisper.

Mak: 20:26

Well, any exploration that you do creatively is never wasted Never, ever Even. You know it's like because this is what people do. If they start down a path and it doesn't work out the way they want it, or they find out they don't enjoy it, or whatever the case might be, they then go oh, what a waste of time, what a waste of money, what a waste. No, you learned so much, first of all in trying to develop that skill, but secondly, you learned about yourself, and that is now information you're carrying forward into your next creative venture or adventure. And that is another thing that you've got to kind of remember and flip on your head is if you try something and it doesn't work out the way you expected, you're not a failure. You just learned that that's not exactly for you, and then you just quickly pivot and move on to the next thing.

Valerie: 21:18

What you said learning about yourself, that's everything. That is everything, and the act of engaging in your creativity and making something it is going to put you face to face with your edges. How amazing is that the fact that you will learn something new about yourself, the fact that it is going to uncover those sneaky points of resistance. Going to uncover those sneaky points of resistance, the sneaky points where you are hard on yourself, or learning to maybe unhinge from some unhelpful things like people pleasing or worrying what others are going to think, and getting into that. That you of you and and that authenticity with am I really enjoying this? Is this performative?

Valerie: 22:12

I mean, you are going to learn so much about yourself in any creative endeavor that you do, and this is the path. There isn't really that end of it, because the more you create, the more you engage in that way of being, just the more there is creativity multiplies, it's abundant. So you just become in in that rhythm of operating in a more creative way and you just continue to learn more about yourself. That is so unbelievably important and valid in and of itself. We have just given how many reasons why engaging in this way is basically one of the most important things that you can do and I believe it is worth investing in. It is worth investing real time, it's worth investing real money in to follow those things.

Mak: 23:19

Well, I also think it's ingrained within us that if we're doing something, if it's a hobby, or if it turns it even to a little business or something like that at first, that we then say we've planted our flag, this is who I am, this is what I am to the world, and you like announce it. Oh, here is my thing, here is my creative outlet. Here it is. This is me, but guess what it? It doesn't have to be that you, you are allowed to change your mind at any moment and pivot if it's uncomfortable or if it's something you realize you don't enjoy, and you find something better or something else you want to do. And and that's the thing it's like we all get caught up in this idea that this is my life. This is my life, this is who I am.

Mak: 24:07

Look, look at snoop dogg. We use him as an example all the time. He started out as a rapper and is now like a winery owner and martha stewart's best friend and an olympic ambassador and doing children's uh affirmations and all this. So this guy I mean you gotta love this guy, because he started as one thing and has morphed into like 15 other things.

Valerie: 24:32

It's just creativity on display.

Mak: 24:34

What is so great about him is he just follows that creative calling, and so many people are afraid to do that. And even if you, like me, I have so many different interests and I do so many different things. I went on my Instagram the other day and give like a 15 minute speech about why I'm coaching now, when for the last 20 years, people have seen me do radio and start businesses and all this other stuff. And it's like you know, and that's because I'm allowed to do that I can do what I want whenever I want. I want and that's what you have to keep in mind too is no matter what you're doing, you can pivot at any moment and you just follow that creative part of you and you will get probably to someplace you never expected.

Mak: 25:21

But the problem is you don't start, and this is another one of those blockers is it's because it feels like if I go in on this, if I say, okay, I'm going to start investing time and money in this, this is my future. I have to make this work, and so many people get caught in something they don't enjoy doing and they don't love because they're stuck on the idea. Well, I got started, so I have to stick with it. And that's not always true, because when you are truly lit up and you love what you're doing and it is a fulfilling adventure, when the creativity, when you would work 80 hours a week on it for no pay, then you know it's lit up and it's aligned and it feels great.

Mak: 26:06

So if you're into something and you're not digging it, you can pivot, and that's another reason people don't start. So he's got all these reasons. So if you're into something and you're not digging it, you can pivot, like and that's another reason people don't start so he's got all these reasons. And and it's just like, no, just do it. Just like. If you have that inkling, just go try it. It doesn't mean that that's defining you now for the rest of your life. You're allowed to do that Right.

Valerie: 26:29

We want this. We want somebody else, almost with this idea of permission, to say you know, I choose you to do this and it just isn't going to happen. That's the thing. Nobody is going to come into your DMs and be like, hey, you know, I've really I've've seen this and I think you should, you should do this. It's like we're sitting around almost waiting for that permission slip to come, but you write your own permission slip at every turn.

Valerie: 27:01

Anything that you want to do, you are able to do it.

Valerie: 27:05

Just by thinking that you can, thinking that you're able, and that is going to separate so many people from living lives that feel creatively lit up, from staying stuck.

Valerie: 27:20

This idea of you get to choose yourself, like there's nobody out there that needs to choose you, or say, hey, this is legitimate now, or you've worked really hard and you've earned the right to explore something that you want to explore, or whatever. None of that is going to happen. It all comes from within you and you can be the one, like you were saying, holding the pen away from writing your own permission slip because of fear and all of the things that you think you have to check the boxes on, like, oh, is this going to be a long lasting thing? Oh, I don't know. All right, I'm not going to write the permission slip to even begin. Do I have it all figured out? Well, no, I don't. Okay, I'm not going to write the permission slip to begin. It's like we hold that pen in our hands, but we want everybody to know that you can write it at any moment, and that is what is going to separate the people that have lives doing what they want to do and the ones that don't.

Mak: 28:25

And there is evidence of that everywhere. There is evidence of that everywhere. I mean anyone you can think of who is successful, from famous rich billionaires to people in your community who have really cool businesses, or you know things that they're doing or artists that you know. It's like that is the difference they just started, they just they just did it, they just went for it. So take a moment right now and really examine.

Mak: 28:53

Like I think is as if you have been thinking about something or a couple of things during this conversation that kind of came up and like, yeah, I haven't done this, I haven't. Yeah, I kind of I've always wanted to do this or whatever I want you to. I want you to like what is the first little step? Like it doesn't have to be an all in all or nothing thing, but of the things that you want to try, what is the first small step that you can take today to get started?

Mak: 29:23

Because that first small step feels like a massive accomplishment and it could be writing something down on a piece of paper, it could be making a phone call, it could be sending an email, I don't know. It could be starting a journal to figure out what the next steps are. Take a moment and think about that, because that is a huge thing. If you've been waiting, and you have been waiting for permission from the world, from society, from your friends, from your family or, more importantly, from yourself, take that small step forward today. What is it that you can do? That small action will go a long, long way.

Valerie: 30:02

Just give yourself the green light. I mean, it really is. It's going to be courage to take that step and write that slip on your own. But here's the thing we look at other people doing things that maybe we want to do, and if you have a pang of jealousy for that, that is such a gift, because that is a really good indicator that somebody is operating in a way that you are holding yourself apart from. So if you feel those pangs of jealousy, it's a really good kind of just redirect, to be like Ooh interesting, why am I feeling that way? What is it about this that I am not experiencing in my life? That's giving that to me, and it's just a really good gauge to use when we're feeling jealous, because you're probably not giving yourself permission somewhere.

Mak: 31:07

And the same thing is true with criticism, Like when you, when you start to feel like you you need to criticize somebody who's doing something. Examine that, because all criticism is self-criticism, All Chris. So that's a good thing to remember. When someone criticizes you, they're actually there's something going on with them. But, more importantly, when you are seeing someone doing something you feel jealous or you feel the need to criticize or critique, take a breath and examine why. Why is that thing kind of making you boil a little bit under the surface? Kind of making you boil a little bit under the surface, and I promise you will be so much happier once you examine that and get to where that's coming from inside in your heart and your soul and you exercise that a little bit and you go oh OK, I know what I need to do. It makes such a big difference.

Valerie: 32:01

Yeah, and the other thing with jealousy when we see that it's actually a really cool thing that if we can see the example of something, somebody else, that we want to do, or a life that we want to have or something creative that we want to be bringing forth, the fact that we're seeing the example of it, it's like it exists, it's already here. That is such another cool thing. Like you said, how many people they're just writing their own permission slips and we're witnessing that they're not. Nobody chose them, especially at first. Even if they're the most successful, they had to choose themselves at one point and write their own permission slip to do that. But when we can see that happening, that gives us, instead of the jealousy we should be going oh, okay, well, we can say, why not me?

Valerie: 33:04

In a way that is jealous. Of course, it's all in how you frame it Like, oh, it's happening to them, why not me? I'm going to be all jealous and everything. Or we can say, yeah, why not you? Look, we see the example of it. This person is doing it, this person is living that life. What makes them different from you? Nothing, you know. It's probably a lot to do with courage and action to do it. But why not you, why not anybody? Who is anybody to do anything?

Mak: 33:37

well, and and the difference between people who are are successful in their creativity and this is this goes for everybody, not just being successful in your creative business and all that. The difference between people who are successful and who aren't sorry to put it bluntly is action. It's literally action. They took action and it's usually consistent action, and that's what this episode is all about. It's inaction. We're not starting because we're afraid to take action.

Valerie: 34:10

And we think we need permission.

Mak: 34:12

But nobody. Nothing that you see, experience, feel, smell, taste, anything would exist if somebody hadn't taken an action upon a creative thought. That's the only difference between them is you. They took action, and action will beat talent every single time. There's so many really talented people who never take action, so we'll never know what it is that they have to offer the world, and it's sad and that pains me, which is part of the reason why we're doing this podcast, but that's it. I. That pains me, which is part of the reason why we're doing this podcast, but that's it. I mean, literally, action is everything.

Valerie: 34:49

And I want to interject messy action, messy action, that's good.

Valerie: 34:55

Not figured out the whole way how this is going to go. It's one foot in front of the other. It's courageous, messy, imperfect action. And you do that and you're not waiting for that to happen. You're willing to sit in the muck of your own discomfort because it is going to be messy. That's how you build anything. That's how you paint a painting, anything. That's how you paint a painting. That's how you build a business. It's all just imperfect, messy action after action after action, and you don't quite see where it's headed. You might have a goal, and that's okay, but it is that, that showing up, putting that one stroke, the one step after another, that's the determiner.

Mak: 35:50

Have you ever baked a cake? Have you ever made a complicated, complex dinner? It's messy, it gets really really messy, but the result is something really incredible and really nourishing. And that's what this is. It's the same thing. You, you, you. You have to get your hands dirty, because that's the fun part. The fun part is the actual action of the building, of the doing of the thing, not the result. When, when a musician is is recording a song, they love the process in the studio. When a musician is recording a song, they love the process in the studio. That's when they get to exercise all the creative thought and try and play and see what works and what doesn't. And this is where, like, producers come in and it gets really exciting. When the song is done, that's great, but that's it. It's done and it's off, and that's it. They want to get back to the studio. They want to get back to writing. They want to get back to the messy part off, and that's it. They want to get back to the studio. They want to get back to writing.

Valerie: 36:46

They want to get back to the messy part. So if you're waiting on the permission, what is that telling you? Okay, and especially when it comes to yourself and your permission that you're not giving yourself because you're saying I need more training, I need more credentials, I need more experience, I need more time, I need more money, all of these things that we say we're holding ourselves apart from doing whatever it is that you wanna do and we have all of these reasons why the permission is going to come when I have this thing, but all that is really saying it's trying to protect you from just getting messy and taking an imperfect next step. We think that when we're further down the line and we have more credentials or we have more experience, that the mess is somehow not going to be the mess, but it's still going to be the mess.

Mak: 37:39

It's just a bigger mess. It's just a bigger mess, but that's also the.

Valerie: 37:45

That is what is required, Right, the only way out of the mess is through the mess. There's no bypassing, there is no you know pass, go collect $200, like go right to go, Like we're not getting that.

Mak: 38:01

And you know what it would be boring if it was like like we, you know, if you, if you want to, if you want to be the world's greatest golfer, and you could just snap your fingers and you were, you got a genie in a bottle and you could be the world's greatest golfer. It might be fun for like a little while, but it would be terrible after a while because you would just win every single round and that would no longer be fun. But the but. If you start and you learn and you're and you're constantly evolving and growing and practicing in your golf game and all of this, that's the part that's fun.

Valerie: 38:37

That's the part that's fun, that's where you're growing I was thinking what that would breed is imposter syndrome. If, all of a sudden, you know there would just be this level of imposter syndrome, if all of a sudden you know there would just be this level of imposter syndrome. I feel like the antidote to imposter syndrome is in the doing. It's in taking the messy action and you show yourself what you're made of. You show yourself that you can trust yourself.

Mak: 38:59

Yeah.

Valerie: 39:01

And you get to know yourself when you do it. The clarity comes from the doing.

Mak: 39:08

It's so true. It's like let's look at this podcast like right, like if, if, if we stick with this and in two years we're still doing this, we'll probably look back on these early episodes and be like what were we thinking? You know, because that's just if you've got to constantly be growing and changing and as we see wherever this podcast goes and, by the way, val and I don't have a plan for that we have some goals and some things, but we're just sitting down and doing it and letting it be messy and going forward. But we could probably look back in a couple of years on these episodes and be like whoa man, that was so goofy or silly, or I can't believe we said that, I can't believe we did that, and that's okay because we like to feel the progress.

Mak: 39:52

It's like we couldn't have had the ninth season of Seinfeld, which was brilliant, without the first season and the first season. It was literally the worst five episodes on television history. It was terrible. It's kind of like the first season of the Office, where they were figuring it out, but we wouldn't have had the incredible sitcom of the Office if they hadn't taken the time to work through the mess at the beginning. And that's all you're doing. And it does take some courage to be willing to work through some of that mess a little publicly, because that's what's going to happen, even if you're not like on a platform doing it. But your friends and your family and whatever they're going to see an experience, you're going to want to talk about it a little bit. They're going to see what you're doing.

Mak: 40:37

It's like the cost of entrance is a little bit of embarrassment. You can't get success without being willing to be embarrassed, a little bit of embarrassment. You can't get success without being willing to be embarrassed. And once you get over that, the idea of being comfortable, being uncomfortable, will be your saving grace. And the more comfortable you can be with being uncomfortable, the more powerful you are, because you realize that discomfort means growth. Discomfort means mess. Discomfort means growth. Discomfort means mess. Discomfort means you're on your way and the moment you feel comfortable, something is wrong. That's when things are not good. It means you've got to like, okay, now I've got to get uncomfortable again to continue to grow and to develop, and that is the part that's exciting. But also when you're on the side of it, where you're not starting, that looks really scary.

Valerie: 41:28

Well, it's choose your hard right.

Mak: 41:30

Yeah.

Valerie: 41:31

Because the not doing and choosing to sit back down, your brain is shouting at you who do you think you are? No, you're not ready. You need this and this and this and this. Okay, sit back down, sit back down.

Valerie: 41:48

That is also hard. We think that that is safe and keeping us insulated, but it's not. That type of hard is like a soul sucking the all. The spark is removed in life. You're walking around in black and white, you feel dead inside and things just kind of shrivel up. Yeah, that's, and I we've experienced that. That is that feeling, that is that hard, that, uh, brand of hard. This brand of hard when you're like, okay, let's play, let's get creative, let's make a mess. Yes, you do risk being a little embarrassed, you risk being maybe lumped into what we were talking about, will choose all the time, having seen the difference of when you operate, just in that courage and you write that permission slip and you give yourself which is the most important thing, you give yourself the permission to do it messy, to do it afraid, to do it imperfectly, to look a little foolish. Maybe you are unstoppable. Like that is. Like you said, that is the barrier to entry. When you get that, you, you're unstoppable.

Mak: 43:21

Well, I, I, I had, I've started many businesses in my life and um more of them didn't work than did. But when you have a few that work, it works out. And you will, as long as you keep trying. And that's the thing. I kept pivoting and I kept trying something new. Didn't work Okay, pivot, try something new.

Mak: 43:39

Each of those failures were were tough, but I learned how to grow from them. But I had two businesses that were pretty spectacularly public failures that I'll maybe talk about on another episode, but I'm talking like press cameras, like I looked like a fool and those moments were hard. They were really really, really hard. But when I came out of the other side of those, I am so glad I did it. I'm so glad I tried because that informed so much about who I am and led to allow me to build something creative and successful later. Creative and successful later.

Mak: 44:28

But it was because I was willing to walk through that fire that gave me the capability to do what we have done over the last 10 years, you know, creating a multi-million dollar brand and all of this stuff and and, and I wouldn't trade that for the world. I would not trade those experiences for anything, because it's made me who I am and I love it. And it also showed me like, okay, I tried, at least I tried all the armchair people that were sitting around going. I can't believe that happened. I can't believe you did that. You know I'm like, yeah, but at least I did it.

Mak: 44:57

Because what happens when you don't try? When you sit there, you're either you're either creating or you're consuming, and I've always much rather be a creator than a consumer. And when you sit and you stop and you don't start, you're a consumer. But when you're creating, you're creating and you're putting things out. And that's what I want for everybody, because I think everybody absolutely should be creating. My utopia is everybody is lit up, they're in, they're in that space within them where they're fully creative and we're all sitting around creating so much wonderful things for everybody.

Valerie: 45:31

The magic inside each human being, what you are uniquely suited to bring to the world, and it's it's going to be messy, it's like think of human birth. You know it's like it's messy and it can be painful, but to bring forth what you have inside of you and the magic that you have inside of you to the world, it is so worth it. You engaging with that part of you to create and get in touch with that part, learn to trust that part, is so worthwhile. So, okay, people, what are the excuses? Like, what is that excuse?

Valerie: 46:18

I'm thinking, when I first started teaching painting and landscape painting, I was hearing from so many people saying I can't call myself an artist. And this blew my mind. And it wasn't just one person, it was many, many people. I would send out a survey at the beginning of the course and they were like look, I just I want it. I want it so bad. I want to be an artist, but I just can't call myself an artist. And I feel weird about that. And I just in the beginning of every course, I'm I just want to say here's how to know you're an artist.

Valerie: 47:01

You call yourself an artist and then you're an artist that's it and that is literally how simple it is that it's hard when we are dealing with creativity. You call yourself a creative. You say I'm doing the thing, I'm this, this and guess what? You get to be that.

Mak: 47:26

You are.

Valerie: 47:27

Just by calling it. Artist is one of these things where that's again cultural messaging. It's things that we're afraid to say. I think we're afraid of hearing starving, suffering, all of that crap, and it stops people from stepping into these places where their soul and their heart longs to be. And it was such a common thing. My soul longs to create art, I would hear. I used to create art In school. I would create art, but then I stopped and I needed to move on to more serious, important things that I. I let that go, but I want that, my soul wants that and I'm going. Okay, then you are that, the fact that your soul wants that, that means that it's for you that means that it is you.

Mak: 48:22

There is no organization that comes along and bestows the term artist on you, like there's no place to apply for that. You wake up and you go. You know what? I'm a creative, I'm an artist and you're an artist. That's it.

Valerie: 48:35

And if you feel that longing so deeply, it's because it's you. That is the only way you feel that longing, because you don't feel that about other stuff. You know, as you go through life there are things that just you could care less. If this is something that is tugging at you, it means it is you, it's in there, it's inside of you. So, like I said, we're claiming those titles. This is the unbound creative. Like it's time. It is time to remove the shackles. Let's remove the shackles of culture. Let's remove the shackles of industry. Don't get me started on the art industry, that's a whole other thing but we're removing the shackles. You want it, you feel it, you say it, say it and it is the end.

Mak: 49:25

Period.

Valerie: 49:27

So let's write those permission slips. We want to. We hope that through this audio that you are listening that you feel our passion and our belief in you, that there needs to be an uprising of creatives who feel empowered and unbound and and just given the tools to be able to show up and do it messy so what is that?

Mak: 49:58

one small action you can take today and if you say no, I'll do it tomorrow. I think I said it before. Those are the words, those are the worst words in the human language I'll do it tomorrow. There will nothing that will prevent you from being successful in whatever it is. You want to do more than that phrase I'll do it tomorrow. No, you will do it today. And that one small action could take you two minutes.

Valerie: 50:30

It could literally be claiming and stepping into a new story. Yeah, no, I am an artist.

Mak: 50:38

It could be writing down. I am an artist on a sheet of paper and taping it up on your mirror or putting it in your car, or voice memoing yourself, or putting a reminder in your phone to remind you every three hours.

Valerie: 50:51

Or thinking about that person that you're jealous of who's living that life, and you decide and just go all right, why not me?

Mak: 50:59

Right.

Valerie: 51:00

Why not me?

Mak: 51:01

Maybe reach out to that, maybe send that person a DM or an email and say I admire you, I want to be like you. I'm saying just one simple action. Take that action today and you will feel so good. And then follow that up with another action tomorrow and the day after and the day after and get going. You don't need permission from anybody, you just need to start.

Valerie: 51:30

And if that voice is coming up saying well, who am I to do this? Replace it with. Who is anybody to do anything? Really think?

Mak: 51:39

about that.

Valerie: 51:40

Who is anybody to do anything? We are all human beings. We all have a story. We all have our unique individual magic. Who's anybody to do anything? It's the people who write that permission slip to do it, and we want that to be you.

Mak: 51:58

If you found this podcast really helpful today, please do us a quick favor and go on Apple and leave us a review. Give us a rating, leave us a review, because that really helps the algorithm and help people find the podcast. Go on Spotify, give us five stars. And we're just so grateful that you're listening, that you're taking the time out of your day to listen this is going to be just under an hour, that you're taking the time out of your day to listen. This is going to be just under an hour. So if you listen to us on 1.5 or 2 or 3 speed, great, we're still glad that you're here. Thank you so much. I am thatmacguy on Instagram. Mac is spelled M-A-K and Val is at Valerie McKeon on Instagram. Dm us, let us know you're listening. If you have topics you want us to cover in future episodes, please let us know. We're so grateful to have your ears and we will see you very, very soon.

Valerie: 52:53

Thank you Bye.