Valerie: 0:07

I kind of feel like doing these episodes and starting is like improv comedy well, they have to be funny for it to be comedy.

Valerie: 0:16

Well, we don't know what each other is going to say. We just turn on the mic and then you just see what happens and it's like, okay, are you gonna talk about your dog, what's, what is it gonna be? And then you just yes, and happens and it's like, okay, are you going to talk about your dog, what is it going to be? And then you just yes and it and go. It's like improv.

Mak: 0:29

That's radio, baby. That's what it's always been about. That's why I love this medium, because it's obviously a podcast. But back in the day, when talk shows were huge, that's what it was. I mean, you had a loose outline, which we do. We kind of have a stack of stuff here we want to talk about, but you turn that mic on, you're never sure what's going to happen. And that's what I like about us we're not scripted here.

Valerie: 0:50

No, I think everybody can tell that we are not scripted. It's true, but it makes it fun because we just let the conversation go where it's going to go and what comes up is going to come up, and it is.

Mak: 1:03

It is kind of fun and thank you guys for the uh incredible response. I know on the last one, I said that our first first one had the most downloads we'd ever had like of an initial podcast, the. The follow-up was like really close behind it and that first one is still going. The second one's still going too, obviously. I just checked the numbers maybe an hour ago and we're shocked and we've had a lot of messages at this point.

Valerie: 1:28

We're so happy to hear it.

Mak: 1:29

And when you're doing this, you know this isn't. This isn't really a two-way conversation. We can't like we're not seeing faces or getting so. It's really nice to hear from you so real quick. Thank you so much for continuing to support and listen. If you know anyone who thinks would like it, please share it with them.

Valerie: 1:45

Yeah, and we would always love to hear your biggest takeaways too. You can always DM us. I'm at Valerie McKeon on Instagram. Mac is at that, mac guy.

Mak: 1:55

Mac is M-A-K.

Valerie: 1:57

So yeah, let us know what you're liking, what you're taking away.

Mak: 2:01

And if you hear thunder in the background, that is not a mischievous sound effect. We're actually in the midst of all, like the tornadoes and everything happening in Tennessee right now, so hopefully we won't be interrupted by a tornado, but you might hear some thunder and we might jump if there's some lightning, because we've got some big windows behind us Going off, off and on all day, all right.

Valerie: 2:23

So today we in the last couple episodes we've been feeling like we've sort of been giving an overarching feeling of what we want to talk about, what we are all about. So we want to start kind of deep diving on a few things. And there's so many things.

Mak: 2:44

More than a few things. I think we have a list of at least a hundred.

Valerie: 2:47

That's what this podcast is about, and it's so interesting because we are loving it so much that we want to talk about all of it at once, and it's like, well, what about this? And then there's this, and then there's this, and so that's a good thing.

Mak: 3:05

And if there is something that you're interested in having us cover, that's another good reason to DM us too, or email us, or however you want to get in touch with us, send us ideas, or if you have questions that you want us to answer, am I going to send them in. We'll try to tackle them, yeah.

Valerie: 3:16

So today we want to talk about something that I think so many creatives can relate to. Why is it that something that we love, something that lights us up, to create? I think those who are listening are probably creative and we hear that like how fun that sounds to create something or to engage in creativity, but why does it actually feel like pulling teeth to actually do it?

Mak: 3:46

It's such a good question because it's I mean, you could unpack this in so many ways and there's so many great real world examples, even this podcast. We love doing this and this is literally easy, but it took us three years to finally do it and here we are. Why? Why was it like? What happened that kept us from from proceeding, and what is it about the things we love to do and create that keep us from moving forward?

Mak: 4:16

well, to me it's almost like going to the gym where well no, because I hate going to the gym I don't know that that's a good example unless you're like a pro athlete or something and that's like how you thrive. But that's not a really good example for me. It'd be like it's like eating peanut butter cups. Yes, fine, Then I'm down for that. I guess what?

Valerie: 4:35

I mean by that is you feel so good after you do it?

Mak: 4:41

Yeah.

Valerie: 4:42

It's like why don't I always do this? Or even after you do it, yeah, it's like, why don't I always do this? Or even okay, going for a walk, doing something that you know actually feels good and fills you up, why do we not do those things? Or why is it like pulling teeth to go and take a walk, even though you know you're going to feel amazing after that? But I guess that's not quite the same here with creating, but still, we are such interesting creatures, aren't we?

Valerie: 5:12

as human beings, we are so wired to create. We firmly believe that we are wired to make things, and it can be many different things. It doesn't have to be in traditional forms of art. But we are wired to make from nothing, to bring forth life in what we do, to turn nothingness into something of value and that has meaning. And we are wired for that down to our very core. We are wired for that down to our very core.

Mak: 5:51

But yet it's so interesting because our same wiring also stops us from doing the thing it does. It keeps us from doing the thing that we so badly want to do, and it's like why and the top piece of that there really comes down to the way our brains are configured, and this goes back thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Valerie: 6:14

So many people will say I just need to stop being lazy, I am so lazy. No, I'll tell you right now you are not lazy. Or somebody will say I just I've got to be more disciplined, I got to be harder on myself, I have to have more willpower, and these are the things we kind of try to fix this issue with with this struggle. But it's none of those. It's not that you're lazy, I don't. You don't need to be harder on yourself in order to get yourself to do something that you know is ultimately good for you. You are not broken.

Valerie: 6:56

Like Mac said, the real reasons here are actually hidden in our biological wiring, and I feel like it's kind of trendy right now to be like biohacking. You hear that phrase, but essentially, when it comes to creativity, we need to biohack every single day to override certain systems that are in place that we all have, that is wired into us, and if we didn't have those systems, we would drive off a cliff, we would go outside and get hit by a car, like we need these systems of safety in place, but when it comes to creativity, it doesn't always serve us. It makes it feel so hard and what we want to do is help you make it feel light, light, easy fun again.

Mak: 8:00

Well, what's crazy is is that the idea of of safety in real life. Okay, fight or flight, what our brain is doing, preventing us from walking off a cliff or stepping in front of a car, all the things that it does. Okay, you see the fire, you know you don't put your hand in it, you know it's like, that's like these are all the things that it's built for, but it's almost like it overstepped its bounds in creativity, and and and what I mean by that is creativity is a vulnerable expression of who we are inside. And that safety mechanism, instead of keeping us from being attacked by a bear because we know how to run from one, what it has done is it has said don't be vulnerable, don't fill yourself with this joy, because that's really scary. You're going to be concerned about how everybody's going to react and what everybody's going to think, so you're better off being comfortable and just putting on another Netflix episode, and that's where that wiring kind of goes off your brain.

Valerie: 9:07

The bottom line, here's what it comes down to it hates the unknown. That's that is what that's what it is. It just hates the unknown. But when you are a human creating something from literal nothing, there is always going to be that element of it being unknown. You can go in with the biggest plan, you can develop your skills and things, which we do, but still that really never fully goes away, because we are still operating in the unknown. Here's what's funny about it, though and this is very much my own story with this, this whole way of being. We think that we want that to go away, like we think that we want that that fear element to go away, that unknown element. This is the thing that's like kind of stopping us from getting the momentum and getting going. But what's funny is when you can biohack yourself to give yourself the safety to keep showing up and building that muscle, the unknown becomes familiar, and often for a creative, that means it's time to nosedive back into the unknown. So what I'm trying to say is, for me, my career started very humbly. It was just a hobby of an Etsy store with chalkboards. I was really into it. It was so fun.

Valerie: 10:39

I had never done hand lettering. I taught myself everything. I was so excited. It was like studying fonts and trying to draw them and putting together these compositions. I loved it, I loved it, I loved it. But then as my career went on, as my artistry went on, I kind of I reached a level of sort of mastery. With that I wrote the book on it, the complete book of chalk lettering, and I started feeling that like dead inside, feeling Well, what started happening? I was almost like a machine. I was printing out pieces of art but yet was not operating in my creativity, really hardly at all. I wasn't pushing myself. They're really. I removed that level of the unknown and I really was kind of like I could do this with my eyes closed.

Mak: 11:32

Well, it became familiar.

Valerie: 11:34

Right. But what's funny is I was like itching, it was like this isn't filling me. I don't feel creatively filled up, I feel bored, I feel like what's next? Ooh, let me go over here, let me experience, like experience with these markers and everything. But it's so funny because people think artists must be these like creatively lit up, you know people. But that is not always the case. And what's interesting is those feelings of it becomes old hat and I'm just going through the motions and I'm becoming a little bit more of that machine. We think because our brain tells us that once you get the desired outcomes that you want every single time and it feels like you can't miss, your brain is tricking you into believing that's actually what you're going for and what you want. But then, coming from someone who was there, it's like that's actually what you're going for and what you want. But then, coming from someone who was there, it's like that's not what you want.

Valerie: 12:28

You're a creative soul and the soul part of you is like come on, man like let's go, let's find a risk.

Mak: 12:37

So it's what it's what I love to say the most, and that is, if you're truly creative and you want to dive into the things that you love to do, you have to learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Once you get in that space where discomfort becomes the thing that you sort of look forward to. Because, like, one of my favorite analogies of all time was, there was a reporter at the Olympics and they were interviewing all these athletes that were about to compete and they were, and they kept asking the question are you nervous? And every athlete, every athlete, said no, I'm excited. I'm excited, and I heard Simon Sinek cover this beautifully.

Mak: 13:21

The energy of nervousness and fear comes from the exact same place within our biology as excitement, and it's literally how you decide to interpret it in your brain makes such a big difference. How you decide to interpret it in your brain makes such a big difference. And what happens with these athletes is they took a situation that could very easily be nerve wracking or scary, and they were trained so well because they're obviously the top of their game. How did they get there? They learned to be comfortable being uncomfortable because, okay, let's go back to your gym analogy at the very beginning. If you go to the gym and it stops feeling like a workout and you're just kind of like running along, you're not making progress. You're making progress when you keep stretching yourself and adding a little bit more pain to each Like. If you're lifting, if you're running, you have to run faster or longer. If you're lifting, you got to lift more and you got to challenge different muscles. It's the same thing. Creatively, what these athletes have done is they stopped looking at that as fear and as nervousness and they learn to look at it as this is exciting. The idea of this discomfort is actually exciting to them. And then look where it got them. And the same thing is true in creativity.

Mak: 14:44

And the reason it can be so hard to start is because we're so uncomfortable with the idea of you name it vulnerability, with the idea of putting something out there and having it be rejected, with the idea of putting something out there and having it be rejected, with the idea of um, what's, uh, what's the other word I'm looking for? With the idea of perfectionism and like getting it perfect that we often set up. All of these scenarios in our mind that are I have to do, I have to have the perfect paper, I have to have the perfect atmosphere. I have to do that. I have to have the perfect paper, I have to have the perfect atmosphere, I have to have the perfect drink, I have to have the perfect timing. I have to have.

Mak: 15:21

And we and we, we artificially create all these hazards to keep us from actually doing the thing, when all you literally have to sit down, all you have to literally do is sit down and do the thing on your task list and you just like keep putting it off and putting it off, and putting it off, and then you eventually do it and it took five seconds or five minutes and you sit and you go. Why was I putting this off for like two weeks? It was so dumb and it's and and so internally you're going. Man, I let that fester in my brain for two weeks when all I whoa. That was a big one.

Valerie: 15:54

I must be making an excellent point right now this episode to listen to is gonna feel really ominous we should release this one at halloween, so anyway, um, so so that's what's going on here.

Mak: 16:08

Is we, we? It can be so hard to start, because we've come up with all of these reasons and we're trying to our. Our brains are really trying us to get us to a place where we're comfortable, and that's not going to happen so here's the here's biohacking tool number one I and we're trying to.

Valerie: 16:22

Our brains are really trying to get us to a place where we're comfortable. And that's not going to happen. So here's biohacking tool number one, I guess, is just notice that, and I really, if you start to notice this, because what do we say? Come on, you know, you've said it, we all say it. I don't have time, I didn't create or I'm not putting forth the effort to that because I don't have time.

Mak: 16:41

And we say that.

Valerie: 16:42

That's the number one excuse. Tough love, I mean. Yes, you go through periods where that is the case, but if you are saying that to yourself for months and years, it is not the time. It is what we're talking about nine times out of ten.

Mak: 16:57

It is what we're talking about, I would argue, unless you're like hold up in the hospital or something you actually do have time, you're just not making time for it and that is a block and because creativity, actually, which is going to be a whole another episode, is so much more about your being than you're doing. So there's that.

Valerie: 17:19

That's a whole other episode that we could go off on right now, where we are human beings, we are not human doings. Your creativity is not about the doing and the output, it's actually about your being so side note on that, we'll come back to it.

Mak: 17:33

But, biohack.

Valerie: 17:35

One is notice when you sit down. Oh my goodness, I do this all the time. Where I'm about to. We're doing like a 30 day challenge right now in the membership and I haven't done my. I haven't done my challenge today and my brain comes up with all of this oh well, you need to send that email. Oh well, you should do this. Then you need to do this. And there comes a point where you need to send that email. Oh well, you should do this.

Mak: 18:06

And then you need to do this, and there comes a point where you need to notice what's happening and it's like wait a second, I just need to sit down and do the thing. The four words, these four words that I'm about to give you are the antithesis of your creativity and your growth. Okay, and you don't even have to write them down, you'll remember them. I'll do it tomorrow. If you're living in that rhythm, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

Valerie: 18:32

You just practice procrastination, you practice pushing it down the line.

Mak: 18:37

Mañana mañana.

Valerie: 18:38

There's something I wanted to say, mac mac, about when you said about the olympic athletes and how they switch that story from I'm nervous to I'm excited which you can do by how cool there are.

Valerie: 18:50

There's so many. There's so many things I want to say about this, because I feel like the story changes everything. One, the story you tell yourself, is going to change it all. And it's kind of like when something happens or when you try something and it doesn't quite pan out, or what does it mean? You know, we are by the very nature of who we are. Again, in our biology, we are storytellers. That comes with a flip side of the coin. The storytelling aspect of us gives us our anxiety. It tells us all of this horrible stuff that's going to happen. Our storytelling other side of the coin, we are just really good at these stories.

Valerie: 19:32

So when we're faced with something like, well, what does it mean? You get to make it mean whatever you want it to mean A failed piece, or what does that mean? You make it mean what you want it to mean. Does it mean that you are a failure and you're no good and you are choosing that? You get to make it mean that. So this is another point of the stopping and the noticing, because you can flip that script on. What does it mean that? So this is another point of the stopping and the noticing, because you can flip that script on. What does it mean? Well, it means I tried something new. It means I am engaging with my literal soul in the risk and in the vulnerability. You're stretching a vulnerability muscle, you're stretching a risk muscle here. Any act of doing that is you directly getting in touch with the sole part of you that is made to make. So see how we can flip that script and then all of a sudden it can lower that resistance of your brain that's stopping you from moving forward.

Mak: 20:36

And if you look, I mean there is so much fun in the chase of the ultimate prize, but the secret is the ultimate prize is the chase itself. Okay, that's another little wisdom drop for you. But my point here is that if you were just instantly good at everything and you knew you could start today and create the greatest creative expression that ever existed, over and over again, like if you, if you want to cook, and you knew you could cook like bobby flay every time you cooked, that wouldn't be fun it goes back to me doing chalkboard, right it wouldn't be fun anymore.

Mak: 21:17

If you're, if you're a visual artist, you know you could create the perfect painting. Every single time you painted it would no longer be fun. If you, if you want to go play golf and you would like be the best golfer ever, every single time you played it would no longer be fun. What is fun is actually learning. It's creating the bad painting and and internal. Okay, what am I going to change this time? What am I going to change this time? It's like the same thing in the NFL. If one team was perfect forever, let's say and I'll do a Steelers plug here, because we're from the Pittsburgh area originally If the Steelers were so good that they won every year, no one would even. It wouldn't matter anymore. They would start giving the prize to the number two team. So what I'm saying is you have to learn how to enjoy the process of failing, of getting critiques, of losing, of not worrying about perfectionism. The actual process of doing is what should be fun.

Valerie: 22:21

Because here's the thing, it's actually who you become in the process. That's the thing we don't actually want. The thing, like you said, if you knew you could never miss I say this all the time to people that I mentor. If I'm like, if I could wave a magic wand and just make it all, make the struggle go away, make the journey go away, the climb and all of that, and it's just gone, I would be doing you the biggest disservice of your life and you would get there and be like, oh oh, this is cool for maybe a week and then you would turn around and say, what else? What else can I do? What can I be a beginner at? Again?

Mak: 23:06

yes and and okay, look, just think about like here in america, we love the, the rags to riches story, and how often do you hear it like you hear there's people like the winklevoss twins, and people like that were like oh, they were born rich in a successful family and then they formed an even more successful company and everyone goes, oh, who cares? Of course they were, they were handed everything. We don't respect that, but what we love is the story of the person who was down and out, or an addict, or they were homeless or whatever. They turned their lives around and became a multimillionaire and then they in turn, changed so many lives because their story is so inspirational.

Mak: 23:46

Now, if you had the choice between being successful in either of those situations, which one would you choose? More than likely, you would actually choose the Rags to Riches story, because how much more exciting, how much more would you learn? Much more would you learn who would you be? What kind of respect would you have for yourself? What kind of respect would people have for you? So that's that's. But what makes the story great is the story itself, not the outcome. There are hundreds of thousands of wealthy, successful, creative people out there, but what we love is hearing that story and how they got there and the participation in the struggle is what makes it great.

Valerie: 24:25

Well and just again, who do you have to become to be that person? It's so much of the internal change and when you are going after a life that is filled with creativity, that is a constant act of setting down the fear of the unknown, setting down the fear of the criticism. We are setting down the need for the right or the wrong. We talked about how school has conditioned us that there's a right answer and a wrong answer In creativity. That's not the case. Has conditioned us that there's a right answer and a wrong answer In creativity. That's not the case. Literally every point of creativity, what it requires of us, the spontaneity, the letting go, the risk taking, the vulnerability, all of those things is the requirement. So if all we do is focus on the good outcome but then we're not focused on who we're becoming, then it's the well, what's next question is inevitably going to come up, because your soul is going to call for that to come up. But if you were only going for that outcome and not learning those lessons, which are just the very bedrock of creativity, then you're not going to be any better for it. You're not going to actually have gained anything and, in the long run, of what is actually going to be soul fulfilling happiness.

Valerie: 25:44

But when you can notice what's happening with your brain, notice and say this is my biological wiring, this has nothing to do with my capabilities. It is literally going to tell you who do you think you are. Sit back down. The song that it's going to play is the song of you are not good enough and who do you think you are? Imposter syndrome and you are not enough.

Valerie: 26:10

Like I can pretty much guarantee that's the song it's going to play and it's going to be different, a little bit different for everybody, because your brain knows you and it's going to be able to give you really, really convincing arguments of why you should sit back down, because who do you think you are and you're not good enough, but you recognize that is your biological wiring, that is your brain saying that. That is your biological wiring, that is your brain saying that. Therefore, you can learn to exercise back to the gym thing about the discomfort but you can learn to exercise the muscle of creativity instead, which is spontaneity, risk-taking. Messy, it is so, so messy, but you're exercising that like a muscle. So then it becomes who you become. So then the outcome might come for what you're working on. It might not come for what you're working on you might actually find something better that's what I was gonna say.

Valerie: 27:10

But you now have the muscle in place, you now have the rewired neural pathways in place. That's like, oh, okay, I now have the ability to pivot and try this and be okay with it.

Mak: 27:25

Well, think about all the incredible inventions. Now I wish I had a computer in front of me. I could look them up real quick. But all the really cool inventions that came from people trying to do something else yes, it's a massive list And'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be wrong, but I know play-doh was one and that's like a billion dollar like company now out of a mistake, versus even someone trying to correct.

Mak: 27:50

But imagine if the people like the I think coca-cola was that way. I mean, there's a bunch of things that we now love that came, that came. Somebody was trying to do something else and, in the process of being messy, discover gasoline. Gasoline was one. So in the process of trying now I'm trying to do something else, I'm trying to do something else In the messy part they actually discovered something more amazing than what they were trying to create to begin with. And so imagine if you don't start because you're afraid of the mess and you're just looking for that perfect outcome. Think of those people If they had had that mindset of well, I don't know what this is, but I'm trying to get a perfect outcome, and we might have never had Coca-Cola, we might have never had Play-Doh, and look it up.

Mak: 28:37

There's tons of these kinds of things out there, and space program has tons of them, like when they were trying to get somebody to the moon. I mean so much of innovation. What we have today came from mistakes and then testing materials and stuff for the space shuttle and all of that. So imagine, like, if you are so focused on that outcome and the perfectionism and all of that, what you could miss. Like I can, val. I can only imagine in your case you have invented new strokes and things like that with the like in your methodology for painting through mistakes and thrown away, like I'm sure that you you figured out how you wanted to paint through the mistakes that you made.

Valerie: 29:22

Yeah, I always say that every painting, every, every misstep, it's just compost. Even when it goes in the trash, that trash is actually compost and we need the compost in order to grow.

Mak: 29:37

That's a great analogy To the next one.

Valerie: 29:38

It all fuels that next level of becoming, and there's definitely color choices and things that have come out of just pure experimentation. But I think, where this comes into play and what you were saying about, imagine in the perfectionism, if you become so close minded, you're like so lasered focused that you miss kind of what's around. I think that is truly the crux of it. I think it's. Elizabeth Gilbert says that the marker of a creative life is only one that leans more toward curiosity than fear. That's the marker, and this goes back to what I said about well, what does it mean? And we can make it mean whatever we want it to mean.

Valerie: 30:25

So you made that failed. We're just using painting as an example. But you make a failed painting. What does it mean? I'm a failure, I'm bad, I'm no good, whatever. Or what does it mean? And you can say, well, we'll look at this color and, oh, this is compost and I really don't like this, but this was a really cool thing. So it's like, what are those what if? Questions, or what are those curiosities to lean into?

Mak: 30:51

When we think of Ina Garten Barefoot Contessa, we think of like perfection, Like she's just like amazing she. Everyone wants her to be their, their mom or grandma. You want to hang out with her. You want to get invited to her house. You and I had a chance to go see her on her book tour Incredible, it was one like.

Valerie: 31:09

I sat there and cried. It was incredible. Tears rolling down my face.

Mak: 31:16

And we love this lady. We've've been following her, I think for 15 or 20 years. I mean, who hasn't, who doesn't love ina garden? But, um, what she was so real in that interview and her memoir it was promoting her memoir and her memoir was amazing, totally fantastic. Buy it if you haven't yet and read it, add it to your reading list. But, um, she talked about what I loved is. She talked about this boston cream pie. She had. Someone asked her. She said some. Somewhere along the line someone said, hey, can you make a boston cream pie? How many times did she try it? How many times did she try to make it?

Valerie: 31:47

oh, I I don't want. It was in the 70s or 80s, I thought it was more like 100 okay, it was a crazy number. You get the point they went in the trash like she just cakes in the trash.

Mak: 31:56

And it was years, it was multiple years and she would tweak one little thing and make a boston cream pie and it went in the garbage and she'd start over and she worked on perfecting the boston because she said she didn't really like boston cream pie if we're botching the story, this is still the same idea.

Valerie: 32:14

You get the numbers, but you'll. You'll get the idea. Okay, I know we're botching the story, this is still the same idea.

Mak: 32:17

You get the numbers, you'll get the idea. Okay, I know we're sorry because I know you're probably the first one to download our podcast. Listen, but the point here is Ina was not working toward creating the world's best Boston cream pie Guess what she loves trying to create the world's best Boston cream pie.

Mak: 32:37

she was so lit up telling the story about it was like a scientist it was, it was, it was killer, and that's and that's where you want to live. You want to live in that energy and we don't start. You don't start because of all of these reasons. You're working for the outcome. You're worried about perfectionism, you're afraid of what you're going to feel about yourself, self-criticism, you're worried about what other people are going to think. You procrastinate, you put it off.

Mak: 33:06

But if you learn to be like Ina and love the process and instead of being scared or nervous like the Olympic athletes and you're excited, you can try. And if you don't, if you quote unquote, don't have time. I guarantee you spent 10 minutes on your phone today that you didn't need to and that's all you need. Have your supplies sitting there. Whatever you want to do, whether you're writing a song or you're trying to work on a recipe or whatever you take that 10 minutes and do a little bit. You can do a little something to get started and remind yourself that it's the process of getting there. That's exciting. It's like bringing you food and you're like, ah, you're almost like upset when the plane lands. That's what this is like. You want to. You want to indulge in the plane ride, not the destination, but when you get to the destination. It's pretty amazing too.

Valerie: 34:12

But then when you're there, you're like where do you want to go next? What are we going to do next? It's like, no, you're not going to stay there. That's the cool thing. It's like we think we're going to get there and then all of a sudden it's like, yep, here I am, Nope, we. The nature of your creativity is the more you use, the more you have, the more you exercise that muscle, the more you want to exercise that muscle, the more you look for opportunities when you're operating in that curiosity, and again, I want to do the episode that has to be next the being versus the doing.

Valerie: 34:43

Okay, write that down when you are operating from that being place. You are just a person who is curious. You are just a person who is creative not doing, quote, unquote creativity. You will see all of these opportunities, these things to try, these just avenues that you want to explore that muscle, regardless of how you work, it is one of the best investments you can make in yourself hands down. The one of the best investments you can make in yourself hands down. Exercise that muscle of how good can I get with the risk and the unknown, how good can I let this feel for myself? And so this is, I would say, our like next biohack.

Mak: 35:30

I don't know how we don't have them listed. We're literally making it up on us. It us not like.

Valerie: 35:37

We're like all organized here and have some list like this was our points biohacks, you know, like we're geniuses.

Valerie: 35:42

No, we're just kind of inventing this as we go because we said notice first, just notice when you're doing that. And okay, here's the tweak, here's the story, like switch, how can I make this the most fun for me? I love that question. That question is the question, in my opinion, for creativity, for business, for anything in your life what, what do you hate to do? Do you hate to do the dishes? What is it like? What are those points for you that are like so annoying? How can I make this fun for me? And that is going back to what you were saying, mac, about the flight, where we love that destination. You love it because you made that destination just so enjoyable and so pleasurable and so delightful.

Mak: 36:37

You made getting there.

Valerie: 36:39

Yeah, you made getting there, that's what.

Valerie: 36:40

I mean so delightful and pleasurable. How do you do that for your creativity? How do you do that for your time where you're, like I'm becoming, I am in the process. So I think the first one was noticing. I think the second is actually that story reframe. What are you making it mean? Are you, if you're telling yourself, hey, I don't know how it's gonna turn out, like, let's hold this very lightly, it's not that serious.

Valerie: 37:05

Everybody, we can have a levity. We could have a lightness and say what does this mean? It doesn't mean that you failed. It doesn't mean that you're you failed. It doesn't mean that you're not good. It means that you're adding compost to the pile. Oh, look, good, another piece of compost to the pile. This is fertilizing who I am becoming. So that's the first, that's the second one and then this one. The final reframe is how can I make this fun for me? What can you do that would just delight that whole experience? What would light you up? Ask yourself that question, and that is why I hate the people saying you got to be more disciplined, hunker down, get up earlier, do this like that energy? I just don't like it, because I think the energy should actually be. How do I make this fun for me? How do I make this a soft place to land?

Mak: 38:04

well that should it should be that with everything in your life and I, I, I want to loop around something you said, probably 10 or 15 minutes ago too, about how your brain will get in your way. So this might be not. I don't know if this is biohack four or bonus biohack, but your brain only knows you now and your history, your past, and so when it start, when you start to, like, make these changes, step into discomfort, more than likely your brain is going to use your past and it's going to start throwing things at you and they're going to come up, stuff that you haven't thought about in years. It could be stuff from when you were a kid. This still happens to me today.

Mak: 38:46

Anytime, I'm starting to feel creative. My brain goes well. When you did this when you were nine, everyone thought you were an idiot and I'm like where did that come from? I haven't thought about that. But but the the now, the biohack here is noticing that when it happens and being kind to yourself gently, gently, look at that thought and go, thank you and release it and remind yourself as to what's going on. It's the awareness of that that makes all the difference in the world in helping you just start being uncomfortable, being comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Valerie: 39:25

You can actually use that coming up as a sign of your growth, because somebody that is not creating and just sitting around watching Netflixflix all day eating cheetos, that's called numbing exactly, but there's no um, yeah, you numb away that, that fear, those self-doubts.

Valerie: 39:48

But when you have that, come up those doubts or those things from your past and I hear that from the people I teach a lot, who will tell me like they were. Just, they remembered something that an old teacher said to them that really, really hurt them and these things start to come up. And it's just a sign of your growth. It's actually something not to be. Don't let it send you back into numbing and into sitting back down. It's trying again to sit you back down because it knows that, it knows the feeling and it knows that you're going to stay alive sitting there watching Netflix. But you can, you know better than this, because now you have this bit of an override and you can say, okay, like Max said, just with the gentleness of it, I see you, you're just trying to love me by getting me to sit back down, but I don't need that information right now, and then actually look at it like ooh, I'm growing, like this is good.

Mak: 40:47

Like pat yourself on the back when it happens, and a lot of times what helped me even is I kind of smirk and I laugh and I say to myself thanks, thanks for bringing up that that time from my past so we can let it go now, because I don't need that anymore. I literally say that and it's amazing and sometimes I do like a little visualization, like 10 second visualization, of it being like in a balloon and just letting it go away. And it's balloon and just letting it go away. And it's amazing how that has freed me from so many of these little thoughts and I'm telling my brain thanks, but no thanks. Let's replace that with the idea of you know what we're safe creating. We're safe making and putting things into the world, because that brings us more abundance, that brings us more money, that does all these things that help create a place where we feel, where we can feel comfortable in the future, and then at that point we can feel more uncomfortable.

Valerie: 41:49

It's a really great cycle yeah, and just knowing that it is doing so much for yourself, from even a level of healing, of getting back to your soul and what you are made to do and how we as humans are literally wired. It's getting us back to the you of you, the who we are, the what we are made to be, the you of you, the who we are, the what we are made to be. So, just reminding yourself that, yes, we do have this one, this set of biological wiring, but actually down to our very essence and our own divinity and our own just aliveness and our soul. This is actually where we want to live.

Mak: 42:33

So do you want to recap?

Valerie: 42:35

Because we don't have them written down, you recap them, we'll test your memory and this, these are the takeaways from today. These are the takeaways, these are you write them down?

Mak: 42:43

because we didn't.

Valerie: 42:45

These are the things that will make your creativity feel less hard. No more, we it's feeling hard. We want it to not feel that way anymore. So number one is to notice. Notice your biological wiring. Don't beat yourself up for it, because guess what, we all have it. So notice when you are procrastinating. Notice the doubts and the fears that come up and you can be like oh interesting, this is coming up.

Valerie: 43:16

Number two is your story reframe. What does it mean? What you're telling yourself, that it means whether you had a bad day creating something. You're saying I'm lazy, or what does it mean? You get to make it mean what it means. You get to be the one to decide what is actually happening here, and that story will change everything. It's the story. Number three is the question what would make this the most fun for me? How can I make this fun? When you go back to your having fun and your play and your delight, you are tapping into who you really are and we're kind of told not to do that or that. It's easy. Play and fun. Oh, those are the things we have to like, stop ourselves from doing almost. But that's not true. I actually think in our culture today it's the opposite. Actually think. In our culture today it's the opposite. We have to stop ourselves from the overworking and all of that and actually prioritize the play and the fun I'm going to say something that is, unfortunately, controversial life is supposed to be fun.

Mak: 44:28

Life is supposed to be joyful. That's what it's here for that's what we're wired. We're wired for that we're not supposed to be here to work, to have fun for a couple of hours. It's supposed to be the other way around.

Valerie: 44:40

Right so.

Mak: 44:41

And then, what was the bonus biohack? What would make this? Do you remember the bonus biohack? What would make this?

Valerie: 44:45

the most fun for me. And then the bonus is whenever you do start to go down the path of creating be ready, be prepared. That's when the flood is going to come in and their brain is going to sound the alarms and say wait a second, why aren't they listening? And then you might get hit with some like big doozies trying to get you to sit back down while you're in the midst of the doing and know that that, again, is normal. These are the things people don't talk about, and yet we all are human beings with this wiring, so you can gently notice that and say I see that and now I can release that.

Mak: 45:31

If you really enjoyed this episode, do us a favor and I know it's a little bit of a pain but go give us five stars, write a quick review on Spotify or Apple. It really helps the algorithms push us up and show the podcast to more people and we just really, really appreciate it because we're super stoked to be here, super stoked to be hanging out with you and doing this, and I actually like that idea we had earlier. If you have something you want us to talk about, send it in DM us. Val is at Valerie McKee on Instagram. I'm at that Mac guy. Mac is M-A-K. Sorry, just DM us and let us know. Leave a review and if you think this podcast will be helpful for somebody, forward it to them. You know, someone who's creative and creative doesn't have to be an artist Entreprene helpful for somebody, forward it to them.

Valerie: 46:21

You know, someone who's creative and like creative doesn't have to be an artist entrepreneurs are creative.

Mak: 46:23

All kinds of business people are for this. Creativity is the lifeblood. Everybody is creative in one way or another and we want to serve everybody, so, um so, thank you so much for for listening today. We really appreciate it.

Valerie: 46:33

See you next time. Bye.