Valerie: 0:01

Hey, welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to be with you again for another episode specifically in this series that we've been doing for artpreneurs about how to sell your art, but without the stress. I'm joined by my husband, Ma, again.

Mak: 0:19

It's good to be back.

Valerie: 0:20

And my name is Valerie McKee. You are listening to the Peaceful Creative Podcast, so today's episode is all about your brand and how to build a brand. These episodes it's for anybody who is an entrepreneur. Maybe you have a dream of that, Maybe you have an art practice that is just lighting you up and filling you up and you have this dream. Wouldn't it be amazing to sell my work In my Instagram DMs? All this week I've been getting messages from people saying I am getting requests about people buying my work, but I don't know what to do. Help me. And I'm like, yes, that's amazing. Good for you, that is so exciting.

Mak: 1:04

That is exciting.

Valerie: 1:05

These episodes are meant to help you. We are giving you our best tips this week, but also we're very excited. We love having these conversations and it's great because we're going to be having this conversation for six months, starting in January with our brand new course that is coming, called the Peaceful Artpreneur.

Mak: 1:27

And we're really excited about it because it's the first time you and I are teaching something together, which is super exciting.

Valerie: 1:34

Even though we've been entrepreneurs together since 2008.

Mak: 1:37

It's been a while, it's been a minute, but we're really excited because it will give us a chance to have a two-way conversation with everybody in the course. We didn't just record a bunch of fancy modules and upload them. We're actually doing it live, so we will all be interacting together. If you're part of this first group and we can actually dig in and get our hands dirty along with you, we don't want to just preach at you, we want to actually help you through the process.

Valerie: 2:12

I feel like one of the biggest determining factors of sticking with something and actually doing it and making the change that is necessary is having the support and the accountability. That is why we want to do this live and it's interactive. It is real. Do this live and it's interactive. It is real. And also in a group, in a community who is walking the same path alongside of you. It's so important.

Valerie: 2:32

We don't just want to sell you a course that's going to sit there on your desktop. We want this to move you forward. Because the thing is, when we talk about selling, we talk about business. We talk about taking your art and turning it into a business. There's so much that becomes part of that. There's fear, there's vulnerability. Entrepreneurship is often an act in self-worth, so there's a lot to wade through here. And then there's also just the nuts and bolts of things. How does this work? How do I build a brand like we're going to talk about today? Nuts and bolts of things how does this work? How do I build a brand like we're going to talk about today? So it's really about being in this live, connected interactive container where you are going to be encouraged and supported to be able to move through all of this and put the action in place that you need.

Mak: 3:21

And the first three months January, february and March is like kind of the meat and potatoes of the course, where we'll be walking through all the modules and things that we're creating and actually honestly kind of morphing along, based on feedback and everything. That's the thing we really want to tailor this to the group. And then the second three months we're going to come alongside you and offer support. So April, may and June you will be able to get on regular calls with Val and me and we will just help you through any issues or blockers or things that come up. So we're really excited about that portion of it too. And if you sign up before this Saturday, we have a couple of bonus calls.

Valerie: 4:03

Yeah, there's some great bonus calls. The first one is going to be at the end of the month, in November. It's going to be a holiday sales bootcamp and we firmly believe that you could pay for the course already with some holiday sales, before the course even begins in January. We're going to teach you some tips, tips to do that. Then we have a pricing master class.

Mak: 4:27

Pricing is by far the biggest question that we get asked and you were just saying to me before we went live that you're like a bulk of the questions you're getting all revolve around pricing, especially after the episode two days ago.

Valerie: 4:39

It's really funny like this is like the number one topic that's the topic, so go and listen to that episode if you missed it. On pricing but we are going to be doing an entire pricing masterclass together again, live with everybody to be able to get your questions answered and let's workshop this together. And then we have a vision casting workshop that we're going to talk about the way that we like to do goal setting, setting up a vision board. It is not your typical way of doing it. It's a way that's going to feel really, really good and the whole idea is so that by come January, when we really kick off, you're going to hit the ground running. You are already laying the groundwork now, doing so much of the mental work and the mindset work, to be ready to go in January. So we're really, really excited about those extra calls and, like Max said, those are all included. Plus, there is a thousand dollar off discount on the course right now for the early bird special.

Mak: 5:41

So in order to get those three extra calls, which we're valuing at $1,500 plus the $1,000 off the course price, a total of $2,500 in savings, you do have to get the early bird special and you have to sign up before this Saturday. So if you're listening in real time, you got a couple of days left to sign up at ValerieMcKeoncom slash sellwithpeace. All you know, no spaces, all lowercase ValerieMcKeoncom slash sellwithpeace, and the link will also be in the show notes.

Valerie: 6:14

So we're excited to dive into this topic and, again, if you haven't listened to our previous episodes this week, I recommend going back and catching those as well. But today we're going to talk about brand, and for some maybe that word is holding like icky connotations. Maybe you're like, oh that's, you know, that's on brand.

Valerie: 6:35

Or maybe you've heard things like that and it just feels like a little icky and it's like, oh, is this inauthentic? Maybe you have a viewpoint coming in about brand that, oh, I need a logo and I need a graphic designer to be able to make a website and branding and colors and a branding board and all this stuff. Maybe you're thinking of it in that way. But really, what we want to boil this down to, to really cover what is a brand, replace the word brand with vibe. Really, a brand is just what's your vibe? What are you all about? When somebody comes in contact with you and often via online, which is what we're going to dive into a lot what vibe do they get? What are they walking away with and saying, oh, I can automatically tell that person is about this and this and this and this.

Mak: 7:35

And so that's a really fancy way for saying how do people feel when they interact with you, whether they're in person, online, visiting a website, looking at an Instagram profile, looking at a Pinterest board, whatever. What are they feeling, what emotions are they feeling and how are they getting to know you personally through those interactions? So it's way more about vibe than a pretty logo.

Valerie: 7:59

Yeah, and it all culminates into a vibe ago, yeah, and it all culminates into a vibe. And if you think about when you meet somebody else, you are looking at what they look like, how they're dressed, how they're carrying themselves, also what they're saying, but not just what they're saying how are they saying it? What is that sort of whole package of somebody? And that's what I would call a vibe.

Mak: 8:26

And a really good practical example of this, I think, is when you compare walking into, like Dunkin' Donuts versus Starbucks. There's a very big difference in vibe there and the logos have absolutely nothing to do with it. In Dunkin' Donuts it's a little more transactional, the lights are brighter and you know, it's just you know, and it's like a typical sort of fast food establishment. Okay, starbucks is also a fast food establishment. The lights are a little lower, the chairs are a little more cushy, they've got the really hip jazz or pop music playing, the baristas have the aprons on and the whole thing, and so the vibe is definitely different between those two stores. Neither vibe is wrong, but each one is representative of how, of a different feeling, and that's what we're talking about.

Valerie: 9:14

So here's the thing you already have a vibe. You are you. You are a person walking around interacting with other people, and when Mac and I had our advertising agency, that was the first business that we started together back in 2008. And we helped a lot of businesses back then be on social media and build their brands new businesses and just people who wanted to craft this brand. And how do you this brand and how do you promote that and how do you talk about it? We helped a lot of businesses do that, and what we would say to every single business is you already have a brand and even if you don't know it, you still have a brand and in the not trying to have a brand, that's still a brand. It's true.

Valerie: 10:06

It's still a feeling, it's still a vibe when somebody comes in contact with you. But the difference is when you want to go from just being you your personal interactions to an entrepreneur. What can really really be an asset to you is in the direction and the intentionality of what that feeling and what that vibe is. So know that you already have it. But if you bring a little thoughtfulness and intention to, how do I want to show up here and what is the takeaways that I want people to feel? What is my vibe going to be in this artpreneurial way? That's all we're doing.

Mak: 10:50

And the key thing here is to remember that you have to do this authentically, because, especially for artists because you're you, you're not a big company. You're yourself. So you don't want to create a fake version of yourself that you think represents what your customers would want or who you think other people want to see, because that can only last for so long and we're all made of energy. We feel energy around us. People will sense, even if they can't put their finger on it. They will sense a level of inauthenticity. So what you want to do is make sure that your personal brand is an authentic extension of who you are.

Valerie: 11:37

And having it. That's a really good point of. Maybe you see somebody else's vibe and their way of being and you're like you're drawn to that and you want to say, well, that's going to be my vibe, but if it's not authentic to you, that's a quick way to burn out, it's not a sustainable way of being because, like Max said, you want this to be an extension. Now it is very helpful to look at other artists and things that you enjoy and ask yourself why am I drawn to this? What is making me feel pulled to this vibe, to this brand, what this artist is all about, and start getting curious with the way that you interact with other brands and artists and what it is that you find to just be very appealing to you. The other part of it, with a brand that, yes, you want it to be authentic 100%, this should feel like a very natural extension of you in a very, very natural way for you to be. But I also want to say your personal brand as you show up to your business, is not the whole you. Yes, it is authentic. However, it is impossible that you, as this gorgeous, complex being that's going to be the fullest of expressions of you in your brand.

Valerie: 13:12

So some people, I think, get worried, almost like, oh, this is my brand and do I have to start sharing all of these things that I don't want to share about, because I want to come across as relatable and vulnerable and all this? And it's like no, we're overcomplicating it way too much. You get to share the authentic parts of you that you want to share. You don't have to share a lot of the parts that you don't want to share. This is part of the directing.

Valerie: 13:38

This is part of the bringing an intentionality to this whole idea. Bringing an intentionality to this whole idea and something else. That's a real big point to keep in mind. People get confused very easily, and so if you almost are like, well, I have to show every facet of myself and this is my brand and this has to be the fullest expression of me, first of of all, you're going to have your identity so tied up in this and you don't want that. We can even we can go off on a tangent about that how you as your brand, although it is authentic, is separate yeah, I have about 10 tangents based on what you just said so it is not you.

Valerie: 14:22

it is you, it's authentic. It is not you. It is you, it's authentic, it is not you. And I just lost my train of thought.

Mak: 14:27

Yeah, sorry that I was making. I feel like I made it.

Valerie: 14:30

Because of that one point alone.

Mak: 14:32

I would say, to try to make this a little more real for you and I use this example in a previous episode, but it's because I like it when somebody, if a really close friend is coming over to dinner the way you would set up your house and there might be a specific candle you'd light, or there's a recipe, a go-to recipe that you have.

Mak: 14:54

You've got that playlist. I know you do, whether you made it or you found it on Spotify that you love to play. While you're making dinner, you might have a specific kind of tea or a bottle of wine that you really like. What you're doing is you're welcoming dinner. You might have a specific kind of tea or a bottle of wine that you really like. What you're doing is you're welcoming people into your space and you're setting a vibe for them for the evening, but guess what that vibe is? You, you're setting a vibe that is representative of how you want people to feel when they're in your presence, when they're in your home. When they're in your home and when you're trying to make them feel loved and comfortable, and that's essentially, at its basic level, what you're doing here.

Valerie: 15:34

Yeah, it's your taste, it's your preferences, it's telling people, hey, this is me and this is what I'm all about, so that they can connect with you and connect with that feeling and what I was going. This story, essentially, of what you want people to know that you're all about, it is actually detrimental if it's trying to be everything, because, let's face it, as human beings we have paradox at our very very nature and there are certain things that maybe seem contradictory as part of just who you are. Guess what that's called being human, that's being a human being. So you don't have to, as part of your brand, say everything that you're thinking. You can have a clear plan here that this is the bucket that that lives in, and if you have interests and things that live in a different bucket, it's not that you can't ever talk about it.

Valerie: 16:48

This is not a hard and fast rule, but sometimes just having that overarching intention of this is what my brand is, so it's going to be more forward facing to others, like you said in setting that table. These are the things that I talk about. These are the things that I'm all about. These are the feelings that I want you to walk away with when you are interacting with me and when you can get somewhat narrow about that or more specific, maybe about that, it's going to allow the person interacting with you to understand it more quickly.

Mak: 17:27

Yeah, and that's that's such a great point is is that we do want to when, when you're and I want to talk in a second don't let me get away from this but I want to talk about how to actually cultivate this, like physically, um, but but you, it is very easy for people to get confused, and so it's really good to have that singular focus. And I'm reminded of. I grew up working in radio and I worked for this little tiny AM radio station and the the slogan. This was literally the slogan of this radio station news, sports music and more.

Mak: 18:01

Now, how do you think that station did in the ratings? It was terrible. It was an awful station because every hour it was doing something completely different and it was confusing to people. They never knew what they were going to get when they turned the dial on. So what works in radio? When you say you know we're the hit music station or your country leader, and that's because I know what I'm going to get when I go there, and then how they present themselves on the radio, some might have a more edgier sound if it's like a rock station. If it's an adult, contemporary station, it's more soft. So this is what I'm saying is think about those types of vibes that are created. You don't want to have a mess of all of these things that are about you, but what you want to do is understand who you are at your core and begin to present that as part of your brand.

Valerie: 19:03

So now I want to. This is all very nuanced here, right it's?

Mak: 19:08

super nuanced, which is why we need to do the course to dive in, because there's no way we're going to even get close to covering it in this podcast, and here's the thing, though, to dive in, because there's no way we're going to even get close to covering it.

Valerie: 19:21

And here's the thing, though, you can go the other way and say, all right, I'm going to narrow this down, I'm about painting landscapes, and then your entire brand can just be the art alone, without any infiltration of you. So I want to be clear when we say building your brand, that isn't just oh, let me post all the time about my paintings, and that's it, and that is the intentionality, and that is the specificity. And before I was a regular human being, posting about my life and vacations with my family and showing up and having dinners and all of this, but now I have a brand.

Valerie: 20:02

So, now I just have to post my paintings and I have to be in this little box. No, that is going the wrong direction of what we're talking about here.

Mak: 20:14

And so I think you know at this point, as I'm hearing the two of us go through this I think if we can offer some practical advice right now for helping people to kind of visualize what their brand is, I think that's a really good first step. And so having a practice of actually creating like a brand board and if you're like me, I like to print pictures out and words and things and like physically tack them onto a board or paste them or you can do it on a computer using Pinterest or Trello or one of these other tools, or even Photoshop or Canva but I think that's a really good place to start.

Valerie: 20:52

Pay attention, start paying attention to what you are drawn to. I like to say that the only reason you register any beauty anywhere is because it's what is inside of you. If something is speaking to you, and maybe you even have a little pang of jealousy jealousy is good. You want that feedback because you're going, ooh, what is it about this that I have inside of me that I am maybe not experiencing? So start to just dig in, start to ask those questions.

Valerie: 21:26

If you see an aesthetic that really lights you up, if there's someone who you you follow, that you're like Ooh, I just connect with what they say. Why, what's making you connect? Is it an openheartedness that they have? Is it that they are real? Are they showing up without makeup and just like, hey, this is what it is. Are they direct? What is it about that that you are really resonating with? So start to notice and the same thing with collecting the visual inspiration as well, just to start to understand. What is this? That is very me, what feels really good.

Valerie: 22:07

The other thing that is a helpful, very practical thing to do is make a list of the things that you are about that you feel like you could talk about and post about, and I want to encourage you that this is beyond painting or creating or photographing or whatever your art form is. Yes, that of course. That's naturally. That's going to be part of the brand, because that is what you are offering, that is what you are selling. But this again, is this holistic idea of your vibe. So make a list of things that you might want to show up and talk about. So, for me, flowers that's a huge one. I make that a huge part of my brand If I go to the farmer's market, the farmer's market is another one. I'm constantly sharing about the farmer's market and the colors and think about what inspires you. So gardening for me, that's another big one that I share about. I share about being a mom. I share about doing crafts with my girls. I share about creativity and the other creative endeavors that I have. That's beyond my art that I sell.

Mak: 23:20

And so if you hear everything Valerie's talking about right now and make a mental note of that and you go back and look at some of her social media, you will start to see how this all works together cohesively. Now I can say this as her husband she's a super dynamic and very interesting person and has a ton of interests outside of those things, but a lot of that doesn't show up in her brand because it doesn't belong there. That's still hers, it's private, it's for her to have and for her to keep on her own. And I can say, having gotten to know and work with a lot of famous people who are really good at having brands, when you actually get to know them you begin to understand the other parts of them that you don't necessarily see publicly. And then there's nothing wrong with that, because you don't want to exploit everything about yourself in the name of your brand. What you want to do is share what you want to share and help create that vibe, but also keep things for yourself.

Valerie: 24:20

Well, and this is back to the identity conversation, the point here is when you are moving from this is personal to business. That doesn't have to be a scary thing like, oh you know I'm moving into business, but it's just a thoughtfulness again, and the intention of this is how I show up as business me and it's very much you and you're sharing personal things because people want to relate to another human being. It's parts of your life, but it's parts of your life that you want to share that contribute to that business entrepreneur side of you, tribute to that business artpreneur side of you. It's still very authentic, but it's not you, because identity, again, is a huge part of it. We're going to get into so much of this because selling your art is an issue in self-worth. There's vulnerability there. There's so much there. So we have to keep that separation, at the same time that this isn't the fullness of expression of you.

Mak: 25:19

And I want to give a real life example here and I think one of our favorite personal brands that exists is Ina Garten, and so when you talk about Ina or the Barefoot Contessa, now we're Food Network fans and everything.

Valerie: 25:33

We're going to see her in a couple of days. Yes, I know I'm really excited about it.

Mak: 25:37

I'm trying to figure out how to sneak backstage for that one, but here's the great thing about Ina. So whether you're familiar with her or not, I'll assume for a moment that you are. She obviously 100% is this incredible chef and baker, but it's simple. Her idea is things are simple to make. She takes these complex dishes and she makes them really delicious, really simple, and she speaks very plainly about how to make these things. It almost feels like your mom is talking to you and it's just a really chill. That show is very chill and very vibey. It's a super vibey show. But beyond her cooking, we know that she loves flowers. We know that she loves gardening. We know that she loves throwing parties. We know that she loves France. We know that she loves California.

Valerie: 26:38

She lives in the.

Mak: 26:39

Hamptons, right, and so we have all these glimpses into things that are authentically Ina but have nothing to do with her cooking and her cooking. She's got all these cookbooks and all this stuff and that's why we tune in, but the rest of that plays into the vibe and the appeal of her show and everything that she's doing and what brings a smile to your face is, while she's this incredible cook who makes things easy for you you love and appreciate and can connect with all the other things that are her.

Valerie: 27:17

And that's a great example. And as you're thinking about what is my brand, how am I going to show up, keep in mind that this should feel fun. This should feel good. Don't let this conversation feel bogged down. It should be as natural of things to talk about as it is natural for Ina to talk about the Hamptons.

Mak: 27:39

It should be light. I think that's a really good word. If you're feeling heavy thinking about all of this, I invite you to shift your perspective, because this is just you sharing you and the parts about you that you love.

Valerie: 27:52

Right and that's it, so this should feel light and easy, and what you want people to walk away with saying oh, I get it. That's what this person is all about, those points of connection and that's really what we're going for here with brand. It's all about connection, how your potential buyer can look at you as the artist and what you're all about and say that's my person, I'm all about that. That is what is going to help them connect with your art. Because, as we've established, the art is way, way, way, way more than pigments on a paper, is way, way, way, way more than pigments on a paper. It's way more than this transactional way of being of oh, I like that because it's the right color for my space and you might get some of that, that's fine. But to build a sustainable art business where you get repeat customers and you get those loyal fans and that loyal following who's just like I am all about this because I'm all about you, you're the magic.

Mak: 29:00

That's the dirty little secret is that people are buying it because you painted it, not because it's a painting. It really is the story. And when we say it's the story behind the painting, don't take that literally, like, oh, it's the story behind the painting. Don't take that literally Like, oh, here's the story of the painting. Now, that helps, but in terms of brand, the story behind the painting is just someone getting to know who you are and they will fall more and more in love with the artwork that you create, based on your brand and how you share, about what you're doing. And again, those things shouldn't it shouldn't be this daunting title. I got to sit down and create all this content. No, no, no, no. It's just you being you and you're inviting people to take a little glimpse into that world.

Valerie: 29:49

Yeah. So again back to the takeaways that you can do right now from this conversation. When it comes to building a brand for your art business, the first thing is to start to notice. Notice what you love, notice what is really speaking to you in a visual sense, also what is just speaking to you in a vibe, in a feeling sense, because we also want to take this and visually bring this together as well, and that's part of a brand. We're bringing visual elements together. We're bringing vibe elements and feeling and words.

Valerie: 30:22

How do you think you might want to show up?

Valerie: 30:25

Maybe you're somebody who wants to craft really long Instagram captions and you are just somebody who has a lot on your heart that you want to share, and that is maybe something that you've seen that you really relate to.

Valerie: 30:41

So just start to notice everything and how you might want to start showing up, and then the second thing is to make a list of sort of buckets that you might want to share in, to allow people to get to know you, to have a glimpse into your life and what you're all about and how that really can relate to an overall story of you as the artist and what you love to do. So I mean, for example, maybe you love the sea. I mean, for example, maybe you love the sea, maybe you are like an ocean person and that's what you are drawn to. Create artwork all about the ocean, so maybe let's spin off of that. What else can be part of that brand? That's all about these paintings of the ocean, and maybe it's about this calming feeling and maybe it's about some just All the things that you would experience when, if you're an ocean person, you love more than just water.

Mak: 31:46

You love the seagulls, you love the smell of the sand, you love the feeling of sitting on the beach and reading a good book. You love, love, the feeling of sitting on the beach and reading a good book. All these things that encompass that would be part of what you're trying to portray, if the ocean, in this example, is your thing.

Valerie: 32:05

Right. So just think about your interests, think about what you love, and even in that case, of the ocean paintings. Going back to that, maybe you are just a huge fan of French fries. That's okay. Like, put that as part of your brand, be like that's something that I talk about, because I love French fries and I have this whole thing and I like to make them in a specific way. And maybe you're a french fry snob or something. That's all fair game to put into this mix that is making you so wonderful and unique and these memorable points that somebody can say, oh, I relate to that, I like that person, I'm connecting with that person.

Mak: 32:50

And if you're even feeling like, okay, this I feel weird or vulnerable, sharing this because people might judge me or whatever, get that out of your head. You know you want to say, you want to say the weird thing, you want to say the odd thing. You want to be, because that's what's authentically you. And when you do that, it's amazing who comes out of the woodwork. Because when you, when you have the courage to be real and authentic, other people latch onto that and they want to come along with you and when they start to make that kind of a connection, that's when you start to build that loyal following and the people who will go out and actually talk to other people about you and want to support you and buy your art and get into anything that you're doing.

Valerie: 33:33

Well, it goes back to thinking about what do you relate to most? Are you drawn to the person who is just obviously authentically themselves and just showing up in this way, quirks and all, because we all have our quirks or versus the person who is so perfectly polished, as I said before, maybe there's no humanity there, you don't get to know them at all. It's just this very sterile way of showing up and I see a lot of artists doing that, where you might not even know anything personal about them at all and all you're getting is just a feed of paintings. And I don't think that that is as effective as making that personal connection being that authentic part of you. Because people want to buy from other people, especially with art, when it's meaningful, when you want to get the price that you want to get. They want to connect with another human being on an emotional level.

Mak: 34:35

And again, another real world example of this if you have a favorite musician or a favorite actor and you're following them on social media like I'm a big John Mayer fan, does he only post videos of himself playing guitar?

Mak: 34:48

No, and why did I decide to follow him on social media? Because I wanted to know more about his life, because I connected with his art. The same thing is true If you're like I love Michael Keaton. I don't follow him on social media because he's just posting clips of all the movies he's in. I want to see what he's up to, I want to see what causes he's promoting, what restaurants he's going to, things he's reading or interested in, because I'm genuinely interested in him as an artist, as an actor, and so I think that piece of advice that you just gave right now is one of the most valuable pieces of advice we can give to artists in this moment, in this podcast is that if you just have a stream of paintings, you're not inviting people. People might think your paintings are beautiful, but they want to get to know the person behind the painting, the person working the brush or the pastel pushing the pigment around. They want to get to know you.

Valerie: 35:43

Right. So obviously there is a lot to say on this topic. We have a lot to say about it and I hope that this was helpful. Some really key takeaways to begin thinking about this idea of a brand in a different way or maybe in another way that you've thought about before. I hope it dispelled just some of those maybe blocks that you have in thinking about it.

Valerie: 36:08

And again, we are going to be covering branding in a big way, all of these sort of cornerstones of what it is to be a successful entrepreneur, whatever success may look like for you, but crafting it in this way that is very much aligned to you, that we want you to feel good in your brand. This should feel like an extension. It should feel good, the same with the pricing and the other elements that we talk about of putting together an art business, and that is why we've named the course the Peaceful Artpreneur, because this isn't one size fits all and even in the course of this conversation we're saying, well, it's like this, but then a little bit of this and you don't want to go do for this, and it's because it's so nuanced.

Valerie: 36:55

I find it to be incredibly fun to think about and to think about branding and crafting those messages, and this is something we've been doing, like I said, for a really long time and it's fun. So this is a big part of what the peaceful artpreneur is all about, because we want you to find success as an artpreneur, but it is not at the expense of your life or seeing what I'm going to have to do some icky stuff, and you hear a lot of that talk, especially on social media, where it's like oh, you know, I have to do all of this for an art business and the grind and blah, blah, blah. No, this gets to be fun. This gets to be an extension of you. That's what we're all about, because it's your life. Why are you going to do something and be miserable about it? That's not a vibe.

Mak: 37:47

So true, it's so true.

Valerie: 37:49

That is what we are about. That is what we are about. We are about the practical, the strategic, but also in a way that feels very aligned for you. So we just want to tell you again about that course so that you can get all of the information, because we want you to get that early bird discount. If you are sitting here now saying, oh, I got to be in this, I just you feel it, and if not, that's OK too. But if you feel it and you're like, maybe have that little twinge of feeling afraid or feeling like can I really do this? But in that voice inside of you it's like this is your time, this is your moment, 2025 is your time, and if you're hearing that, we want you to get in and to be able to get that early bird rate.

Mak: 38:35

So the first three months are the sort of intensive part of the course January, february, march and then we will follow up and support you for the following three months. All the details are available at ValerieMcKeoncom slash sell with peace. And right now that early bird special is going on. It's $1 thousand dollars off the course price, plus you get the $1,500 worth of bonus calls. That all goes away on Saturday. So if you know, don't, don't sit on this. You know, if you're feeling it, go to the website, figure it out. We do have payment options available. You can pay all at once. There's there's all kinds of ways. We've tried to make it as easy as possible for you to do this. You can get all the details there valeriemckeancom slash sell with peace.

Valerie: 39:21

We believe in you, we are excited for you, we're excited to come alongside of you and we're going to be back on the podcast again tomorrow.

Mak: 39:30

Just one more though, can you believe it.

Valerie: 39:32

I feel like I want to keep going.

Mak: 39:34

I feel like it too, so maybe there'll be some extra bonus episodes, or maybe around two of this.

Valerie: 39:39

Yeah, all right, hope you have a good one. We'll see you tomorrow.

Mak: 39:42

Bye-bye.